Big-Box stores in B-burg ordinance

Post by **hklvette** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:57 am

I don't know if anything about this has been posted yet, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to post it again. Some of you may have heard about a proposed ordinance in Blacksburg requiring a special-use permit for any store over 80k sqft. I recieved an email about it this morning that has a link to a petition supporting the ordinance. I support the ordinance becuase I like B-burg the way it is, without a Wally World.

From email:
"Disturbing info about the planned shopping center for South Main: http://www.home-body.net/bigbox.htm

The present ball field behind the Kroger and adjacent buildings is devoted to a big box store with nearly 1000 parking spaces, reputedly a Wal-mart. It fills the entire area between the back of the current shopping center and the Margaret Beeks elementary school fence. The main entrance and exit to this big box store and its parking lot are on country club drive.
The area along south main south of the current shopping center, almost to king street, is devoted to about eight specialty retail store units [some likely multiple], with lots of landscaped parking and a central limited parking area with sidewalks. The 'pond' or detention basin on south main is incorporated into the plan. Council member Don Langrehr has proposed an ordinance, ordinance 1450 that would require special permitting for retail spaces above 80,000 square feet. An online petition has been created to town council to support ordinance 1450, as follows: Ordinance 1450, as proposed by town council member Don Langrehr, would require a special use permit for the retail buildings at 80,000 square feet in an effort to control development of so-called big-box stores such as Wal-Mart and Home Depot. A big box store would have negative impacts on our environment and our local businesses and would only bring more traffic and sprawl, which would permanently change the landscape of our town. Tell Fairmount Property, the town council and the planning commission that we want to keep Blacksburg a special place. Expedite the ordinance and keep the big boxes out.

What you can do:

Sign the petition to expedite ordinance 1450: http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ordinance1450

Write to the town council: http://www.blacksburg.gov/government/to ... /index.php

***The next town council meeting is April 10th at 7pm! Attend and be

prepared to make a citizen comment!***

***Tell everyone you know who cares about keeping Blacksburg unique!***"

Website · Post by **tsmall07** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:57 am

thanks for posting this. I'll spread it around.

Post by **The Beav** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:11 pm

Well unless you are a resident of the Town of Blacksburg you really dont any say in anything in the end as far as a vote or whatnot...

I dont see what the big deal is, traffic is already bad so why not add some more cars to the mix. Its not like these stores are going in downtown Blacksburg so I dont see why having more retail shops would hurt, then you would only have to deal with one clusterfuck of traffic instead of two if you go to Christiansburg...

More money for the town= good

I think that the sites are far enough from downtown to still keep the small town image intact.. Thats just my opinion and I wont be here to see the results anyways.....

Post by **yotacowboy** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:38 pm

i think the issue, baber, is that currently there are no special permits for what's called "big box" stores within town limits. this isn't an attempt to stifle retail development.

b'burg has dealt with keeping out big box stores on a per-case basis, this ordinance seeks to make it just that, an ordinance that puts greater scrutiny on large scale retail development that doesn't potentially 'fit' with b'burg's strategic plan.

just take a look downtown and take special notice of how many empty retail spaces there are. especially in the most recently developed buildings. how long has Emelio's been empty? how long has the old stone bank on the corner been empty? how long has the old Anthony's Pizza been empty? How often do the businesses on college avenue roll over? I've been here for more than 10 years, and the only thing I can say for sure is if you're opening a 'startup' business in blacksburg, you're only going to be open for 2 years. the gourmet pantry is one excellent exception.

i would harbor a guess that the grand sum of empty space is in excess of 50,000 sqft in just in downtown (the 'sixteen squares' downtown). 80,000 sqft of retail space in one building is not something that promotes business in blacksburg's best interest. it promotes home depot and wal-mart. not many local businesses (if any at all) could afford the lease for an 80,000 sqft plus it's attached 400+ space parking lot. if you want to go to wal-mart, take the 12 minute drive (or 30 minute bus ride if you hate driving in 'traffic') to christiansburg. i know its painful, but i think you'll survive.

Post by YJ » Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:48 pm

yotacowboy wrote:
b'burg has dealt with keeping out big box stores on a per-case basis, this ordinance seeks to make it just that, an ordinance that puts greater scrutiny on large scale retail development that doesn't potentially 'fit' with b'burg's strategic plan.

just take a look downtown and take special notice of how many empty retail spaces there are. especially in the most recently developed buildings. how long has Emelio's been empty? how long has the old stone bank on the corner been empty? how long has the old Anthony's Pizza been empty? How often do the businesses on college avenue roll over? I've been here for more than 10 years, and the only thing I can say for sure is if you're opening a 'startup' business in blacksburg, you're only going to be open for 2 years. the gourmet pantry is one excellent exception.

The bitter sweet reality is that BBurg's strategic plan hasn't worked. (No offense to anyone here who fits this description) The days of relying on the hippie, treehuggers to buy their beads from little small town shops downtown, are over. The customer base just isn't there anymore. Once a year at steppin out, just don't pay the bills. I'm fairly involved in local politics and see the real numbers. BBurg's tax revenue is sickening compared to CBurg's. There needs to be some changes made in BBurg soon, if the town want's to continue to maintain it's, "the place to be" image. With the way things have been progressing over the last five years, ten years from now, BBurg will be the place you don't want to be. With realestate prices as high as they are in BBurg, there is a need for increased tax revenue. If the realestate market were to take a dive in town, it would be in a world of hurt. The good paying jobs that have the town well staffed with qualified personnel will start to see pay cuts. Pay cuts will result in what is now a great administration, being a below average administration at best. The below average administration will run the town into the ground. That being said, I'm not a pro Wal Mart type of individual. Our car business was started by my Grandad in 1960 in the gravel parking lot beside Cabo Fish Taco. I love the "small town" feel of BBurg, and wish it could stay that way forever. The sad truth is, that it can't if it want's to survive. Efforts made in the past to keep that (ie Kent Square where Starbucks is at) have failed miserably. The town needs a Wal Mart effect in revenue to offset the huge losses of the empty downtown market place. Major developers have looked at BBurg as a building spot, but went with CBurg when met by opposition in BBurg. That trend has proven very costly for the town. Proof of that is the fact that BBurg is well in the red, as opposed to CBurg whose finances are in the black. The bottom line falls back to the residents of the town. If those that drive by Heavner Hardware to go to Home Depot would shop locally, there would be less financial strain on the local business owners. Or those that buy their North Face coats online, instead of going to Blue Ridge Outdoors downtown. Before anyone jumps on a band wagon to keep something out, they need to look at their own buying habits. That of course is not directed at anyone posting about this topic. It's just general food for thought on big picture.

Post by **yotacowboy** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:52 pm

hutch wrote: If those that drive by Heavner Hardware to go to Home Depot would shop locally, there would be less financial strain on the local business owners. Or those that buy their North Face coats online, instead of going to Blue Ridge Outdoors downtown. Before anyone jumps on a band wagon to keep something out, they need to look at their own buying habits. That of course is not directed at anyone posting about this topic. It's just general food for thought on big picture.

i think you nailed it right here. I'm saddened by notion that "if you can't vote on town ordinances, you don't have any say in what b'burg is like". If you want to make sure Heavener's doesn't get run out of town by HD, don't pass them by when you need a roll of duct tape. Christ, there's 24,000 students that have to buy their shit somewhere!

and I agree that b'burg isn't a town of smelly hippies anymore. selling incense and tie-dyed shit won't cut it anymore.

b'burg has learned in a major way that college sports derived revenue is great for making money quick (and most developers LOVE this). I doubt that any of the "new" development at kent square and clay court were proposed with a greater than 7 year time horizon. the soaring property prices reflect this, and have essentially driven out quite a few locally owned businesses. the prevailing development tactic is to make money quick, while the football team is still good. the business capital loans reflect this same way of thinking... anybody remember the underwear store in kent square? wtf? seriously... who gave those people money to sell JUST UNDERWEAR thinking it would be a great store, open for years to come and serving b'burg with tax revenue??? c'mon guys, get your shit together...

although my opinions on wal-mart would be considered 'negative' by most of you guys and gals, I absolutely think it has it's place in blacksburg's town fabric. that 'place', however, is in greater/suburban christiansburg. i know i haven't been to wal-mart in more than 3 years, and i'm doing just fine finding what i need in blacksburg. and tell me, honestly, would having a wal-mart in town increase the likelihood that any of you would actually walk there?

the masterplan proposed in 2006 for that specific site (behind and beside Kroger) would be great, as property values in that vicinity are aren't as likely to be as ridiculous as those down town right now. But the masterplan has changed, and will now be home to a 165,000 sqft business. there's only a handful of retailers that need 165,000 sqft to do business... and none of them are local (or even regional). once we start relying on a single wal-mart to generate enough tax revenue to keep the town in the black, we can be assured of even fewer businesses in town staying afloat. the idiom, "don't put all your eggs in one basket" comes to mind here.

Website · Post by **tsmall07** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:37 pm

yotacowboy wrote: i know i haven't been to wal-mart in more than 3 years, and i'm doing just fine finding what i need in blacksburg.

I would love for someone to tell me where I can get office supplies in blacksburg.....

Post by YJ » Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:30 pm

tsmall07 wrote:
yotacowboy wrote: i know i haven't been to wal-mart in more than 3 years, and i'm doing just fine finding what i need in blacksburg.
I would love for someone to tell me where I can get office supplies in blacksburg.....

New River Office Supply on Ramble Road

552-6611

Post by **Leach** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:05 pm

BURN. Or the Shipping store next to taco bell, or Cardinal Blueprinting down by Wendys (towards 460), or a vacant teachers office on campus, duh.

Post by **yotacowboy** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:27 pm

tsmall07 wrote:
yotacowboy wrote: i know i haven't been to wal-mart in more than 3 years, and i'm doing just fine finding what i need in blacksburg.
I would love for someone to tell me where I can get office supplies in blacksburg.....

mish mish?

if not, then new river office supply

Website · Post by **tsmall07** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:12 pm

I didn't know about new river office supply. Maybe if some local businesses spent some money on advertising, more people would go there.

Post by **Steinberg** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:48 pm

tsmall07 wrote:I didn't know about new river office supply. Maybe if some local businesses spent some money on advertising, more people would go there.

ever try the yellow pages?