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Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:36 pm
by 97JEEPTJ
Arya Ebrahimi wrote:Jake, the lower balljoint castle nut only keeps the knuckle from falling out if you were to get airborn. The weight of the vehicle should keep it well compressed.
Please post a clear concise list of the components that the two scenarios have in common.
Current Setup:
-New Wheels for my 35's
-Newly balanced wheels/tires
-New Axles
-New lower control arms up front (stock ones, bushings in great condition).
-New larger bolt for track bar at axle end (Issue at Potts was wallowed out hole--how I received the axles)
Same:
-Tie Rod
-Drag Link
-Rest of Steering (stabilizer, etc)
-Same lift setup (+.75" spacer in front)
-Same NEW track bar from over the summer
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:43 pm
by 97JEEPTJ
BadAssEddie wrote:
Have you driven these Jeeps? Do they have a compatible amount of lift with sloppy steering? Do you have a qualitative comparison between them? Do the owners drive them as wild as you do and have the same expectations? I do not think so. Your argument is weak and flawed. I made a precise case for my side, you did not. You have an inferior (strictly speaking, not as an insult) suspension setup that is a large contributor to issues. Its not a fact of what others have done or not, it has to deal with the fact that what you have now is not ideal as it could be. I'm not saying you have to get long arms, I'm saying that you have to give credence to what I am saying. Otherwise its silly. Why is death wobble a very seldom issue with stock vehicles? Because it has to deal with the fact of people modifying things and then you throw components out of whack and cause issues like you have. Denial of this is an ignorant thought process.
You cannot make such definitive statements based upon seed of the pants impulses. You talk as if you are using scientific fact, when in fact you are filtering out what you want to hear. Don't ask for help if you are just going to brush aside everything with no corroborating evidence. You can mock my paragraphs or lack thereof all you want, but it just accentuates your selective hearing.
I believe that you just want there to be some illusive bolt or TRE that is the root cause of all your issues because its easy and follows your mindset of straightforward simple application of solutions to fix a 1 dimensional problem. But as Ary put it on July 27 in a previous death wobble thread, "I generally believe death wobble is a combination of poor alignment and worn out parts. Tight fresh parts can usually overcome poor alignment and a good alignment can often overcome worn out parts, but in conjunction, well, you're fucked". To my knowledge you still havent gotten your Jeep aligned and the last time we talked you were against it for some reason because you feel that you are more precise than a laser. lol. Fixing your parts might work in resolving your issue by masking or overriding the impulse to wobble, but you will be placing these new parts and all old existing parts under greater stress than what they were designed for (stock suspension characteristics and light offroad use), you will decrease there life span and wear out components much quicker (esp if you continue to DD your Jeep). I will bet substantial amounts of currency that you will have a reoccurring death wobble issue for as long as you have this Jeep in its current from.
And Fuck yall. I got on a roll and kept typing. I shall employ the use of paragraphs from now on.
I understand the dynamics of my suspension, and do not think that it is inherently inferior. It does not function as ideal as stock, but performs well out of it's designed limits. You bring up good points, I do not brush them aside.
You can't do much alignment-wise with TJ's. Only the early years had cam bolts on the lower control arms in the front (as I do), and besides that, they can adjust the toe. I do not have adjustable control arms up front, so they're not going to be able to adjust Jack Shit compared to what I can. Plus, you cannot do a 4-wheel alignment on a TJ, the rear axle/tires are where they are, simple as that. All they can do is the front to the extent of toe-in and a very limited adjustment of caster (as I can do). Paying $90 for them to do nothing different than I can does not pique my interest. If there was more to adjust, or if I had IFS, I would be all over taking it to a shop for an alignment.
What kinda money we talking about? And I have very selective hearing.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:49 pm
by BadAssEddie
97JEEPTJ wrote:What kinda money we talking about? And I have very selective hearing.
How much is in your bank account/IRA/off-shore Camon accounts/Swiss/401k (we might finally be able to find out!)?
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:57 pm
by 97JEEPTJ
BadAssEddie wrote:97JEEPTJ wrote:What kinda money we talking about? And I have very selective hearing.
How much is in your bank account/IRA/off-shore Camon accounts/Swiss/401k (we might finally be able to find out!)?
six figures
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:59 pm
by Arya Ebrahimi
How much lift again? 5" give or take?
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:20 pm
by willhf1011
Arya Ebrahimi wrote:How much lift again? 5" give or take?
Like 10 ft.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:21 pm
by 97JEEPTJ
Arya Ebrahimi wrote:How much lift again? 5" give or take?
3.5" springs, .75" spacer up front. 4.25" total in front.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:55 pm
by Timmah
I think I grew a beard while reading this alec vs. jake pissing contest...
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:13 pm
by Arya Ebrahimi
97JEEPTJ wrote:Arya Ebrahimi wrote:How much lift again? 5" give or take?
3.5" springs, .75" spacer up front. 4.25" total in front.
And you're running stock arms still!?
If so, I think I found your problem
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:56 pm
by 97JEEPTJ
well, riddle me this: why, for example on 31's over the summer (same lift, steering, control arms, suspension (-.75" in front), did I have no signs of death wobble?
I do agree the caster could be improved and could definitely play a part in the issue, if nothing else allowing it to get worse.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:41 pm
by Stinson
Jake, do you think that the .75" of more lift, could just be enough to set it off now? Combine that with larger heavier tires and you might have created the perfect storm.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:44 pm
by Arya Ebrahimi
You have exaggerated one of the problems hurting your caster(the extra .75" is a 21% increase over 3.5", not insignificant) and you have also added larger tires which have more leverage over every other component in the system. Get some adjustable arms, preferably uppers and lowers and dial your caster in. I shudder to think what it's sitting at now.
At the very least throw an angle finder on it and let us know what it is. It should be between 4-7 degrees negative(knuckles leaning back). I bet right now it's 0 or even positive.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:08 pm
by alk1174
I am agreeing with Ary on checking the caster it seems 90% of the time DW is caster related.
My truck rode perfect on 32" radials put on the swampers and I get DW at 35-45. At first I thought it was just inherent to SXs but I dont think so now because it gets worse as the bushings and shackles get loose and sloppy. I feel sure its related to caster but have not checked to see. I just choose to drive through it and go on. I think a lot of people have the potential for DW it just takes that one change in setup to set it off.
Check out Brian Schieds DW thread on here if you havent already it may have some help. The DW in his truck was horrible. I think it was a caster change that fixed it.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:45 pm
by BadnewsCJ
Rant aren't you running short arms with large amounts of lift in the front of your cherokee without persistent death wobble? Granted I guess the geometry is slightly different, but I do feel like Jake is running a fairly typical TJ set up.
The addition of .75" of lift and new tires does seem awfully suspicious. I have Will's angle finder give me a call so you can check your caster.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:14 pm
by 97JEEPTJ
Yeah, can I use a bay of moon tower garage wednesday morning?