Sinking Creek 4WD Association

just for fun and to give all the forum cruiser something to do on this wonderful turkey day

I have lunch-box lockers in my heep, an Aussie and a Lock-rite. However.....there are all kinds of options out there, lunch-box, spools, Detroit, air, e-lockers, limited slips, "welded"....the list goes on and on. Be it your daily driver or a trail only rig, everyone has there own opinion on what to do. So whats yours????

Here are my thoughts:

Ideally, I'd have selectable front and rear. ARB vs. E-locker is a long standing debate, and in my opinion has a lot to do with the intended uses of the rig. Some of the e-locker designs are prone to catastrophic failure under hardcore use(Cruiser 9.5"), but function perfectly fine under normal use.

Having wheeled open/open, selectables front/rear, and welded front/rear, I can say without a doubt that if the budget allows, I'll take selectable every time.

With that said, if I had to choose one end to put the selectable in for budget reasons, I'm honestly not sure which I would do. Front seems like the obvious choice for steering reasons, but my welded rear pushes like a son of a bitch. I *think* I'd go automatic(lunchbox or detroit, whatever) in the front and selectable in the rear. As long as you're not on the throttle, the front should release so you can turn the wheel, and leaving the rear open will keep it from pushing.

As to whether lunchbox locker or detroits are better, I think it's safe to say that Detroits are definitely stronger. Whether that strength threshold will fall within an individuals range of use is another matter altogether.

In my case, I'm getting ready to swap out my welded/welded for lockrite/ARB in the minitruck, and I can't wait to get the cruiser back on the trail with its e-lockers front/rear.

I totally agree. I would put selectable in both the rear and front, but that's definitely not feasible for me to do right now. Im planning on going welded rear and Detroit in the front (if i can find 300-500 bucks laying around). So, thats my thoughts on this Turkey Day. Thanks for the entertainment Trow

To me, I would only put a Detroit locker in the rear. It's a full case locker so it's stronger and I can't think of a reason why you'd want an open diff in the rear.
For performance reasons, a selectable locker would always be preferable in the front. I think I'd prefer an e-locker because it would be easier to repair a wire than an air line on the trail. I worry about having an air leak and loosing the locker. That said, I have no experience with any selectable lockers in the front. If I couldn't afford a selectable locker, I think I would go limited slip in the front or lunchbox/Detroit. I don't like driving with a locked front generally because it makes it harder to steer.

The front depends very heavily on the intended use of the truck and if it has full time 4x4 or if it has lockout hubs. I could live with a more substantial locker in the front if I didn't have to deal with it on the street (lockouts).

tsmall07 wrote:To me, I would only put a Detroit locker in the rear. It's a full case locker so it's stronger and I can't think of a reason why you'd want an open diff in the rear.

For a combination DD and trail rig, selectable lockers front and rear is the most ideal scenario. An open rear is preferable on the street for snow and ice and even if the road is slippery enough in the rain.

I have no direct experience with a Detroit, but I believe they lock under torque such as when a tire slips on a wet surface and can cause spin-outs in unfavorable weather conditions on the road. My experience is with lunch box lockers, Lincoln lockers and ARB's. Hands down I would take an ARB any day of the week over any other locker I have used. If you can only do one, I would say a selectable locker is better served in the front for steering purposes.

As far as ARB v. E-locker, I think ARB's have proven themselves time and again to be tough whereas I have heard mixed reviews about e-lockers.

Mike, I agree that ARBs have proven themselves with regards to strength. However it has been well documented that unless you nail the installation, you can be plagued with issues. Not to mention the added complexity of an air system.

I'm not going to argue that one is better than the other, but rather that they each have their place.

DD: Selectable in both ends. ARB would be my preference.

Trail Rig:
Pickup: Spool or mini-spool in the rear with either selectable or automatic locker in the front.

SUV: Since SUV's have more weight on the rear tires, a spool is much harder on them and rear shafts. An Automatic locker or Selectable in the rear of these will improve steering response on and off road and help eliminate over steer on wet roads.

Sanity also play a large roll in what you use where, some of us like the slight out of control feeling a spool give you on slick surfaces...

whats the difference between a full spool and mini-spool? Im under the impression that they do they same job.

BadAssEddie wrote:whats the difference between a full spool and mini-spool? Im under the impression that they do they same job.

mini spool just replaces the spiders and uses the stock housing (envision a welded solid lunchbox locker) a full spool is a solid carrier, no locking mechanisms, just a solid carrier.

Full Spools are also a good bit stronger than a mini-spool, but more expensive. With mini-spools you have to be concerned about the strength of the carrier.

Mini spools are also easier to install as you dont have to reset backlash and/or pinion depth.

Selctable for sure. If i had to choose one, selectable in the rear no doubt. My welded rear pushes me really badly when turning and the locked front really doesnt give me as much trouble. With locking hubs the front is perfect. I'm running a Yukon Spartan up front (lunchbox) and it works great. The welded rear is nice and simple but I really wish I had a selectable for turning purposes. If I could disengage the rear and then either stomp/drive over my brakes or install a cutting lever i could turn on a dime on the trail. hen on the street disangage the front hubs and run open in the rear.

As far as abuse no selectable can hold a candle to ARB in terms of reputation and proven strength. Setup is important but once you get them setup they're awesome. I've heard of a good number of problems with e-lockers as far as the motors burning up, solenoids going bad, etc. The only real reoccuring problem with ARB is the engagement collar on the RD-99 (9 inch) but that seems to just be an issue for the comp guys who are crash engaging it under hard throttle.

ARB rear and Detroit front for me most likely when I build my ideal axles. Spool front if I can't afford the detroit.

Arya Ebrahimi wrote:Mike, I agree that ARBs have proven themselves with regards to strength. However it has been well documented that unless you nail the installation, you can be plagued with issues. Not to mention the added complexity of an air system.

I'm not going to argue that one is better than the other, but rather that they each have their place.

If by "nail the installation" you mean follow the instructions which a monkey could follow, then yes, you must "nail the installation". And I did in fact have a problem with one of my two ARB's due to an installation issue that was totally my fault and was not based on anything complex, but solely on not following the directions. As far as the complexity of the air system I have never had a problem since resolving the above mentioned installation issue. I also carry spare air line and splices, but haven't had an issue yet. I cannot argue about complexity compared to an e-locker because I know little about the electronic components involved, but I know a properly installed ARB with air lines that are well routed should have no issues.

There are two types of people who run locking diffs. People that haven't yet run ARB's and people that have. I'm running one in the rear of my CJ-5 with ZERO issues for about 7 or 8 years. At one time this was my DD. I'm running welded spider gears in the front Dana 30 and the rear axle with the ARB is a Dana 44. Another thing to remember with ARB's is to just carry a couple small spare parts (air line splicers, solenoid valve, air line and possibly o-rings) and you'll be just fine. Another thing with ARB's is to beware of running braided steel lines. The braided steel lines are nice and tough until you run a stick or log up into it and instead of breaking like the blue air line (which can be fixed in about 2 minutes with a line splicer) will hang tough and not break and rip out your entire bulkhead fitting in your differential. Or rip stuff apart on your frame rail. Just be conscious of where you run your line and make sure your run it through some fuel line if it's in a high contact area.

So for me, it's ARB's or if I can't afford them I'll weld spider gears until I can afford one.

Spool/welded is fun on wet pavement! Great for making hard right hand turns from a stop sign.

I have not run an automatic locker in the rear, but took advise to run a spool/welded because they are more predictable than an automatic. I was running a spool and 38" SXs as a DD for a while, it wasnt that bad.

Miller, you make a good point. A spool rear can be annoying, but is very predictable. An auto locker on the other hand can be annoying AND unpredictable.

I had a detroit in the back of my cherokee at one point and it took some getting used to. If I started into a curve on the throttle and then left off midway through the curve, I would undoubtedly change lanes as the locker unlocked and released the bind.