Suggest me a motor

Post by **Arya Ebrahimi** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:21 pm

I'm day dreaming again, but lets say I wanted to build a buggy.

I want a motor that will be as bulletproof as a 22re, but with at least double the power. The ability to run without oil for 3 hours is a plus :lol2:

Seriously though, what motors should I be looking at? I want something simple, reliable, and moderately powerful(200+hp). I'm thinking 4.3 or 3.8SC in the GM stable, or maybe a 2/3rz in the toyota stable. I don't do Ford's, so we can skip that. The only other motor that comes to mind is the Jeep 4.0. The 4.0 is almost perfect except it's so damn long.

How are the GM motors on oiling? Can they handle the abuse that a 22re can? I know the 22re's are legendary, but something has to come close.

Thoughts?

Post by **lantozzi42** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:41 pm

350!!!!!!

Post by **Arya Ebrahimi** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:09 pm

Too big. I'd go 5.3/6.0 if I went V8, and they need all kinds of BS to stay oiled.

Post by **hklvette** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:48 am

I can't vouch for the 3.8s/ 2800s for oilless durability, but otherwise my series 1 has 223k on it and consumes no fluids to speak of, even after being overheated a few times (rad fans don't work). The 3800SC has quite a bit of low-end torque, and if more is needed, its a smaller pulley away. Of the 4.3 and 2.8, I'd stick with the 3.8 due to aftermarket support.

One sticking point with a 3800SC: the starter is mounted on the wrong side to use with a longitudinal small metric bellhousing. I'm not sure if there is provision on the passenger side of the block to mount a starter. If not, you'd need to take a f-body 3800 and do a top-end swap to get an SC.

my $.02

YouTube · Post by **TerryD** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:02 am

The 4.3L GM has the most support. Those motors were used in a couple racing classes for a considerable time and GM has alot of performance parts available.

Another plus is that most things that fit a SBC fit the 4.3L. Roller rocker arms, rods, pistons, and other similar parts. They are also easy to find as just about every S-10 from 88-0x came with one. Plus full size trucks, Astro vans, and even some larger cars. Any transmission used in a full size truck (TH350, Th400, Th700R4, 4L60E, 4L80E, ect) will fit it as they use the same bell housing pattern. The 2.8's and I believe the 3800/3.8L both use the smaller 4cyl pattern which limits holding power in the transmission due to a reduced number of clutches in the packs.

2.8, 3.1, 3.4, 3.8, 4.1 V6's are good little motors, but not the power house the 4.3L is. If you want to be different, Caddilac made a 4.1L V8 based on the architecture of the 2.8-4.1L V6 in the 80's. There's not much aftermarket support, but they are narrower than the 4.3L and may (I'm unsure as I've never been in one of the smaller GM motors) return oil better.

A simple dry sump oiling system will eliminate any oiling issues you may encounter with any engine and they are not hard to build.

Post by **Arya Ebrahimi** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:03 am

I'm fairly familiar with the 3800s as I was planning at one point to put one in my mini-truck and I had a buick regal GS with the supercharger and loved it's instant torque. There's a factory bellhousing from an Isuzu that will allow you to mate an AW4/A340 auto trans to the 3800. I'm just wondering how it is for oiling.

I want to build something that's very reliable, because we all know I'm not nice to my toys

Post by **Fonger** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:22 am

Man I've heard rave reviews on the 4.3L oiling ability. I followed a post on Pirate about Becca Webster's old 4.3. Apparently they switched up engines and went away from their 4.3 and had all kinds of problems with losing oil pressure. I've heard (don't know for a fact) that the 4.3 has larger oil passages that don't limit oil flow like many of the new LS series engines. The 4.3 would be a solid choice.

Counterpoint - the carbed 3.8L in my CJ-5 has worked absolutely flawless. It's got 60,000 miles on it and it looks like it has about 460,000 miles on it. I've laid it on her side on several occasions and had it pegged out at 260-degrees more than once. Oil pressure is still strong and it has been sitting unstarted for 3-4 months. I guarantee I'll walk out to it and touch the key and it will start. I've been really pleased with it.

Another question for the Toyota part of you. Why not run a 3.4L? Those suckers are everywhere and they have got to be close to the 200hp requirement. Plus you can run the Tacoma/4Runner drivetrain and still have many upgrade/low gear options.

One more here Ary. You say you don't do Fords, well just one more option. The 4.9L inline 6. I know it's probably long as hell, but probably doesn't weigh much more than a 4.0. The one in my blue truck has got like 295,000 miles and runs perfect. Plus where else can you find an engine with timing gears that are made of wood.

Seriously though I do like that engine and your transmission options are still good too. The NP-435 came behind that trans as well as the C-6. On a side note for this engine. Ford built them to run generators and pumps and they are rated for 100% duty cycle. I'm tellin' you man these things are tough as nails.

Post by **MILLER** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:32 am

Toyota put a aluminum block 4.0L V8 into some of their Lexus sedans, light and guys have gotten crazy power out of them.

But I would also recommend a 3.4L. Try to avoid a '02-'04 4runner and '03-'04 Tacoma, they have a Throttle Angle Control system, semi throttle by wire, that pestered the hell out of me with my swap, but you can deal with it. I have had TwoFace on her side many times and many Washout runs, 22REs (Clay) would fog the area with smoke, and then there is the time I rolled on Snatch Hill and was sitting on the side down hill for hours, with oil running out of the air filter. She was put back on all fours and started right up.

I think stock power is 180 hp and 220 ft-lb, but with a TRD supercharger, alchohol injection, and maybe a few other tricks, I've heard of 300 rear-wheel hp. Of course I was stock with headers (but they had good manifolds from factory, not much gain with headers), with stock t-case and 4.10s, on 38s.

Post by **MILLER** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:34 am

oh, and I still have done nothing to that motor, except maybe spark plugs.

Post by **willhf1011** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:32 pm

TerryD wrote:A simple dry sump oiling system will eliminate any oiling issues you may encounter with any engine and they are not hard to build.

ls7 or ls9 Ary

Post by **jac6695** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:53 pm

Dry sump on a aluminum 5.3 (cheap, very cheap). Small, low weight, tons of power.

YouTube · Post by **TerryD** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:54 pm

Fonger wrote: Counterpoint - the carbed 3.8L in my CJ-5 has worked absolutely flawless. It's got 60,000 miles on it and it looks like it has about 460,000 miles on it. I've laid it on her side on several occasions and had it pegged out at 260-degrees more than once. Oil pressure is still strong and it has been sitting unstarted for 3-4 months. I guarantee I'll walk out to it and touch the key and it will start. I've been really pleased with it.

Your 3.8L is the same block as the 4.3L. The later 3.8L are based on a Pontiac block, same as the 2.8L, 3.1L, 3.4L, and 4.1L.

Post by **Ctrow** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:54 am

no need for oil pressure with a 4.0....mine still runs

Post by **hklvette** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:35 am

TerryD wrote:
Your 3.8L is the same block as the 4.3L. The later 3.8L are based on a Pontiac block, same as the 2.8L, 3.1L, 3.4L, and 4.1L.

Terry, could you point me to this 4.1? I've never heard of a 60* 4.1. The only 4.1 i know of is the caddy motor (4.1/5/9), which i don't believe is in any way related to the 60* V6s.

YouTube · Post by **TerryD** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:31 am

Early 80's small Caddy's. I'll see if I can locate an exact application.

edit: 82 Caddy Deville. Offered with either the 4.1L V8 or V6.