1969 Ford Bronco

[pcparas]

I have been looking to buy an early Bronco of my own for quite some time. In the last few months we had a family friend decided he wanted to sell his build 69 Bronco and I jumped on the opportunity.

Here she is



The Bronco needs a bit of work. It is currently powered by a 408 Cleveland with Australian 302Cs heads, Ferrea stainless valves, Crane roller rockers, a Competition 270 cam, and a Holley Commander TBI,

The drive train of the Bronco is a T-18 4-sp with a NP205 T-case, a D60 rear w/ a Detroit Locker and a D44HP front axle w/ an ARB locker. The axles are geared to 4.88 and turning 39.5 IROKs.

Ill post more pictures soon.

[BadAssEddie]

Looks cool. Hopefully you can work out the logistics of transporting it and wheeling it.

Sounds like you need to sell the XJ and buy an old 3/4ton truck and trailer.

[pcparas]

So here are a few more images of the Bronco. Alec unfortunately built XJs just don't have much value. We will see what happens.

The Bronco before the previous owner's build


Chassis




Dyno Sheet

[pcparas]

Trussed Dana 44 with an ARB locker and chromoly axle shafts




When I got the bronco I knew there were several issues with the front axle. When I opened up the housing I found that the front driver side axle shaft had been twisted and snapped off in the ARB locker and the ring gear and pinion had teeth broken off.





A trail fix for a damaged inner spindle bearing


Gegear


Because the prior owner had had several issues with breaking Dana 44 shafts and he knew there was currently an issue he had purchased RCV shafts for the vehicle.

[VerticalTRX]

Looks like a neat rig, I've always loved EB's, hope to build one for my wife someday. Looking forward to seeing it out on the trail.

Which motor is currently in it? Just an FYI, the black motor in the chassis pics is a 335 series (351M/400/351C) but the blue motor in the motor pics is definitely a Windsor. Those are not Aussie heads on the Windsor either, probably just D8 or E7 iron heads. Hopefully what you have is a 351w stroked out to 408", which would be a 4" stroke, if you want to measure it. To figure out what heads you have you can check for casting numbers, if it has a number like D9AE, E7TE, etc they are just basic iron heads. If they don't have any casting numbers like those, they may be aftermarket.

Quick Ford motor ID tip: Small-block 'Windsor' series (302/351w) have 6-bolt valve covers, 'Cleveland' 335 series (351M/400/351C) have 8-bolt valve covers and Big-block 385 series (429/460) have 7-bolt valve covers. To throw a wrench into things, it is possible to put Cleveland heads (which includes Aussie heads) on a Windsor, but it takes some machine work/drilling and a special intake, which makes it a fairly rare combo these days.

Hope some of this helps, I've been messing with Ford stuff my entire life so let me know if you need any advice/info/help. Despite being a Chevy man, Terryd also knows a bit about this stuff, as he helped me build the Windsor in my '79 Ford.

[pcparas]

Since the Bronco is back home I haven't had much time to dig into it, but the Bronco has a 351 Cleveland stroked to a 408 with Australian Ford Heads. The previous owner was a long time friend who was into built 351 Clevelands. I have been trying to piece together some old photos of the rig from different forums, but obviously I have let some other engine pictures get into the mix. Thanks for the info, ill see if I can find some accurate engine photos.

[redneckrapunzel]

I believe that the motor that looks black (335 series) in the chassis is the blue motor, at least to me it looks like a blue motor with black valve covers on it with all the other parts being identical. Also besides the number of valve cover bolts how are you identifying each motor? (Just curious)

[pcparas]

These are all older pictures of the chassis. The engine that is in the vehicle now is a light blue color. I believe I have some images of it but I am going to do a little more research.

[VerticalTRX]

Since the Bronco is back home I haven't had much time to dig into it, but the Bronco has a 351 Cleveland stroked to a 408 with Australian Ford Heads. The previous owner was a long time friend who was into built 351 Clevelands. I have been trying to piece together some old photos of the rig from different forums, but obviously I have let some other engine pictures get into the mix. Thanks for the info, ill see if I can find some accurate engine photos.

Ok cool, I'd love to see some current pics, 351C's are pretty dang rare these days.

I believe that the motor that looks black (335 series) in the chassis is the blue motor, at least to me it looks like a blue motor with black valve covers on it with all the other parts being identical. Also besides the number of valve cover bolts how are you identifying each motor? (Just curious)

A few of the differences between a 335 series and a SBF are: valve cover bolts, thermostat housing location, (those two alone are all you need), size and shape of the heads, larger exhaust ports on the 335, and the large/wide/flat intake manifold on the 335. I've had both a 351M and now a 351W in my '79 Ford, comparing the motors side by side the differences are very noticeable. FWIW, I think the motor in the chassis pics is actually a 351M or 400, based on the big-block sized bellhousing. True 351C's used the small block bell housing.

[pcparas]

After digging through some old forums I have found some images of the engine that is currently in the Bronco.

[VerticalTRX]

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm busting your balls, because that's not my intent at all, but those pics are of a 351M/400 not a 351C. It doesn't matter to me what motor is in your rig, it looks like a really clean, capable, classic rig, but it will behoove you to know exactly what motor you have, especially when you begin working on it.

Ford motors are a complicated subject, they had so many variations, displacements, series, etc, unlike Chevy with just big block vs small block, but that's a conversation for another time. If the guy you bought it from said it is a 408" Cleveland then in a way it is, but that is stretching the meaning/truth a little.

Back in the day the 351M/400/351C were all considered 'Cleveland' motors, as they were originally designed and produced at Fords Cleveland, Ohio plant. That said, the only one that actually carried the word Cleveland in the name was the 351C. The 400 came next and it was a 351C with a taller deck height and a few other changes, then last came the 351M, which M stood for Modified, ie it was a 400 modified by destroking it to 351.

So as for your motor I'm betting it is a Ford 400 bored .030 over, which would make a 408" motor. As for how to tell that is a 351M/400 not a 351C, if you notice the casting area where the water outlet is you'll see that it steps down on the right side. This is due to the taller deck height of the 351M/400 vs the 351C. On a true 351C that area is basically flat all the way across. Also I'm sure if you look at the backside of the motor you'll see it has the big-block bolt pattern not the small-block pattern like the 351C.

Regardless of any of that, I think you have a great rig on your hands and I'm looking forward to seeing another Ford out on the trials.

[pcparas]

Thank you for the information. By no means am I a Ford engine expert, I am learning as I go. When I bought the Bronco I was told it was a stroked Cleveland. I will have to look into it and find out what engine is really in the Bronco. Either way I am very excited about the rig and I am hoping to get it out on some rides very soon.

[BadAssEddie]

So Grubb, with that dyno sheet, is it more likely that is a 351M stroked or a 400 with a .030" bore? It looks to make a good power and a whole lot of torque with what you say are stock heads (I can't tell by inspection). How does one typically build that?

Since the 351M has a lower deck height than the 400 but with the same 4" bore (I assume it is the same since it is referred to a de-stroked 400), how to you stroke back out to 408? It seems like a 400 crank in a 351M block wouldn't do that.

Edited because I answered my first question.

[VerticalTRX]

I thought the 351C, 351M, and 400 were all Ford 335 engines?

So Grubb, with that dyno sheet, is it more likely that is a 351M stroked or a 400 with a .030" bore? It looks to make a good power and a whole lot of torque with what you say are stock heads (I can't tell by inspection). How does one typically build that?

Since the 351M has a lower deck height than the 400 but with the same 4" bore (I assume it is the same since it is referred to a de-stroked 400), how to you stroke back out to 408? It seems like a 400 crank in a 351M block wouldn't do that.

Indeed, the 351C and 351M/400 are all 335 series, but as I noted above there are some differences. A 351M and a 400 are basically identical engines except for the pistons and crank. You can swap a 400 crank into a 351M along with the pistons and make it a 400 or vice versa. The 351C has the shorter deck height, ~9.2" vs ~10.3" on the 351M/400. I honestly don't know what is involved in stroking a 351C as I've never messed with them, but I assume it's similar to a Windsor, ie stroker crank, different pistons and/or rods.

As for building a 351M/400, there are a small handful of mfg's that make some aftermarket parts like higher compression pistons, and there are some performance parts from a 351C that will swap over (including most aftermarket heads and cams I believe). That said, the basic formula is a 400 with Badger or Tim Meyer flat top pistons which are good for about 9 to 9.5:1 CR, a good cam, and clean up the heads. Even the stock 351M/400 2V heads flow pretty dang good, they have canted valves and huge ports (bigger than those on some big-block heads). The downfall is the huge 77cc+ combustion chambers which were of a poor design and lead to lots of detention problems. This is why Aussie heads are of interest to 351M/400 builders as the have the good flow characteristics but with a smaller closed combustion chamber.

Back in the mid to late 70's Ford had real problems with detonation on these motors due to all the emissions crap and poor quality unleaded gas, so they retarded the timing and backed the compression all the way down to 7.74:1....and had a 400ci motor only making 158hp. That was a terrible time for all engines, even the 460 was making less than 200hp. I was strongly considering building a 400 instead of the 351W for my truck, but the huge weight savings of the Windsor and aftermarket support is what lead me the SBF route.


An interesting side note, you can use a crank from a 400 to stroke a Windsor out to 408", IIRC you use a 400 crank (with the snout machined off), Chrysler 360 rods and 302 pistons. That's the oldshool way to make a big cube Windsor before the days of stroker kits.


As for the dyno sheets, IDK. are those actual dyno sheets (engine or chassis?) or from a simulation like Desktop Dyno or Camquest? I used to post DD numbers but realized those are just a very vague representation of what a motor is making. Actually any dyno numbers/graphs can be fudged a bit. Honestly numbers don't matter, seat of the pant is where it's at. If it runs hard and suits your application then that's all that matters. If you really want to wring a motor out and see what it'll do take it to test and tune at the drag strip and start making passes. I don't know what kind of power the 351W be built makes, just an old junkyard motor somewhere between 200-400hp.

[BadAssEddie]

Good info Grubb. I'll have to go do some more reading on Ford V8's. I was just trying to talk myself out of trying to build one for my rig too.

Gus, is that an actual dyno sheet or what, like Grubb was saying? I'd be interested to know.

Also, does the truck bumpsteer? That draglink and panhard bar angle difference is pretty drastic.